Shruti pramanas of lord chaitanya's divinity
Someone : What proofs do you have to support your claim behind chaitanya mahaprabhu to be lord krishna?
Devotee : "I know the Supreme Person of sunlike colour (lustre) beyond the darkness. Only by knowing Him does one pass over death. There is no other path for going there." - Svetasvatara Upanishad 3.8
"When a seer sees that creator of golden hue, the Lord, the Person, the source of Brahma, then being a knower, shaking off good and evil and free from stain, he attains supreme equality with the lord." - Mundaka Upanishad 3.1.3
(The golden purush who is seen inside the sun with golden beard, golden hair and golden alltogether from tip to tail) (Chandogya upnishad 1.6.6)
Someone : but they dont prove anything. Let me quote some...
Garg Samhita, Ashwamedh khand, 28.1–10
Krishna, Ram, Vishnu are actually of golden efflugence but they appear as shyam or black as well.
Sita tells Hanuman that Ram is golden hued
kaccin-na tad-hema samAna varNam..." (VR sundara. 36.28)
Devotee: your quotes dont proof anything either. From the same garga samhita you quoted are the following...
Ashvamedha khanda, chapter 13, verse number 7 says
"He (Balarama) plays the flute"
Now although it is actually krishna who plays the flute, still balarama is also being referred because he and krishna are understood in the sense of simultaneous difference and oneness. So your quotes aren't a strong point. Because we find many times that vishnu tattva is being addressed by something which apparently belongs to someone. Chapter 13 of ashvedha khanda is full of such examples, i just quoted a small portion.
Someone : your quotes aren't strong point too in that sense.
Devotee : i think you didn't get the point, let me quote some more from valmiki ramayana regarding lord rama's complexion.
In Sundara Kanda of Valmiki Ramayana Sita asks Hanuman to prove himself that he knew Rama and Lakshmana. Then Hanuman starts describing various characteristics Of Rama. As a part of the description, Hanuman says as follows:
दुन्दुभि स्वन निर्घोषः स्निग्ध वर्णः प्रतापवान् |
समः सम विभक्त अन्गो वर्णम् श्यामम् समाश्रितः ||
Meaning:
He has a voice like the sound of a kettle-drum. He has a shining skin. He is full of splendour. He is square-built. His limbs are built symmetrically. He is endowed with a dark-brown complexion.
So these so called contradictions regarding activities, complexion etc, are to be understood with the bhedabhed perspective.
Our claim that those shruti verses primarily refer to lord chaitanya is based upon the following verse of srimad bhagwatam
SB 10.8.13
āsan varṇās trayo hy asya
gṛhṇato ’nuyugaṁ tanūḥ
śuklo raktas tathā pīta
idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ
Your son Kṛṣṇa appears as an incarnation in every millennium. In the past, He assumed three different colors — white, red and yellow — and now He has appeared in a blackish color. [In another Dvāpara-yuga, He appeared (as Lord Rāmacandra) in the color of śuka, a parrot. All such incarnations have now assembled in Kṛṣṇa.
In this verse, the yellow avatara should be of kali yuga.
Someone : how do you know it is of kaliyug only?
Devotee : Jiva goswami explained this
"The white incarnation was lord hamsa, the yuga avatara for satya yuga, the red incarceration was lord yajna, the yuga-avatara for treta yuga, and dark blue appeared in dvapara yuga, by a simple process of elimination, the yellow yugavatara must appear in kali yuga."
Also 5th Chapter of 11th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam describes white and red colors.
SB 11.5.21 — In Satya-yuga the Lord is white and four-armed, has matted locks and wears a garment of tree bark. He carries a black deerskin, a sacred thread, prayer beads and the rod and waterpot of a brahmacārī.
SB 11.5.22 — People in Satya-yuga are peaceful, nonenvious, friendly to every creature and steady in all situations. They worship the Supreme Personality by austere meditation and by internal and external sense control.
SB 11.5.23 — In Satya-yuga the Lord is glorified by the names Haṁsa, Suparṇa, Vaikuṇṭha, Dharma, Yogeśvara, Amala, Īśvara, Puruṣa, Avyakta and Paramātmā.
SB 11.5.24 — In Tretā-yuga the Lord appears with a red complexion. He has four arms, golden hair, and wears a triple belt representing initiation into each of the three Vedas. Embodying the knowledge of worship by sacrificial performance, which is contained in the Ṛg, Sāma and Yajur Vedas, His symbols are the ladle, spoon and other implements of sacrifice.
SB 11.5.25 — In Tretā-yuga, those members of human society who are fixed in religiosity and are sincerely interested in achieving the Absolute Truth worship Lord Hari, who contains within Himself all the demigods. The Lord is worshiped by the rituals of sacrifice taught in the three Vedas.
SB 11.5.26 — In Tretā-yuga the Lord is glorified by the names Viṣṇu, Yajña, Pṛśnigarbha, Sarvadeva, Urukrama, Vṛṣākapi, Jayanta and Urugāya
But it doesn't explain dark and yellow color, dark because it is krishna, yellow because it is a mystic incarnation.
If you read the verse properly, it has mentioned 4 colours for 4 yugas.
āsan — were assumed; varṇāḥ trayaḥ — three colors; hi — indeed; asya — of your son Kṛṣṇa; gṛhṇataḥ — accepting; anuyugam tanūḥ — transcendental bodies according to the different yugas; śuklaḥ — sometimes white; raktaḥ — sometimes red; tathā — as well as; pītaḥ — sometimes yellow; idānīm kṛṣṇatām gataḥ — at the present moment He has assumed a blackish color.
Someone : mystic incarnation? Also the translation must be sectarian.
Devotee : so let me provide you motilal edition's translation of this verse
"As to this (second son), he (Krishna) assumed human forms in every yuga with three different complexions, viz., white, red and yellow for each, successively, now he has assumed the dark complexion. (Hence he will be known as krishna) "
Someone : so you mean sometimes lord rama is said to be dark brown, sometimes golden, etc. And these so called contradictions are nothing but due to bhedabhed in all vishnu tattva?
Devotee : yes. Lord rama is also known as Nīlimeghaśyā, meaning the one who is in the complexion of a blue cloud. Hence as i also quoted from the same garga samhita regarding a example of such things, and also as i said those shruti verses are Dominantly referring to lord chaitanya, and this is based on SB 10.8.13
Someone : i see. But whats the proof that, lord chaitanya had golden colour? How can we hold chaitanya caritamrta authentic?
Devotee : then who was/is the yellow avatara of kali yuga?
Someone : (silence)
Devotee: hmm?
Someone: i somewhat agree with you, i will talk to you later as i get some more doubts.
Devotee : No problem. hare Krishna _/|\_
Someone : Hare Krishna _/|\_
Our claim that those shruti verses primarily refer to lord chaitanya is based upon the following verse of srimad bhagwatam
SB 10.8.13
āsan varṇās trayo hy asya
gṛhṇato ’nuyugaṁ tanūḥ
śuklo raktas tathā pīta
idānīṁ kṛṣṇatāṁ gataḥ
Your son Kṛṣṇa appears as an incarnation in every millennium. In the past, He assumed three different colors — white, red and yellow — and now He has appeared in a blackish color. [In another Dvāpara-yuga, He appeared (as Lord Rāmacandra) in the color of śuka, a parrot. All such incarnations have now assembled in Kṛṣṇa.
In this verse, the yellow avatara should be of kali yuga.
Someone : how do you know it is of kaliyug only?
Devotee : Jiva goswami explained this
"The white incarnation was lord hamsa, the yuga avatara for satya yuga, the red incarceration was lord yajna, the yuga-avatara for treta yuga, and dark blue appeared in dvapara yuga, by a simple process of elimination, the yellow yugavatara must appear in kali yuga."
Also 5th Chapter of 11th Canto of Srimad Bhagavatam describes white and red colors.
SB 11.5.21 — In Satya-yuga the Lord is white and four-armed, has matted locks and wears a garment of tree bark. He carries a black deerskin, a sacred thread, prayer beads and the rod and waterpot of a brahmacārī.
SB 11.5.22 — People in Satya-yuga are peaceful, nonenvious, friendly to every creature and steady in all situations. They worship the Supreme Personality by austere meditation and by internal and external sense control.
SB 11.5.23 — In Satya-yuga the Lord is glorified by the names Haṁsa, Suparṇa, Vaikuṇṭha, Dharma, Yogeśvara, Amala, Īśvara, Puruṣa, Avyakta and Paramātmā.
SB 11.5.24 — In Tretā-yuga the Lord appears with a red complexion. He has four arms, golden hair, and wears a triple belt representing initiation into each of the three Vedas. Embodying the knowledge of worship by sacrificial performance, which is contained in the Ṛg, Sāma and Yajur Vedas, His symbols are the ladle, spoon and other implements of sacrifice.
SB 11.5.25 — In Tretā-yuga, those members of human society who are fixed in religiosity and are sincerely interested in achieving the Absolute Truth worship Lord Hari, who contains within Himself all the demigods. The Lord is worshiped by the rituals of sacrifice taught in the three Vedas.
SB 11.5.26 — In Tretā-yuga the Lord is glorified by the names Viṣṇu, Yajña, Pṛśnigarbha, Sarvadeva, Urukrama, Vṛṣākapi, Jayanta and Urugāya
But it doesn't explain dark and yellow color, dark because it is krishna, yellow because it is a mystic incarnation.
If you read the verse properly, it has mentioned 4 colours for 4 yugas.
āsan — were assumed; varṇāḥ trayaḥ — three colors; hi — indeed; asya — of your son Kṛṣṇa; gṛhṇataḥ — accepting; anuyugam tanūḥ — transcendental bodies according to the different yugas; śuklaḥ — sometimes white; raktaḥ — sometimes red; tathā — as well as; pītaḥ — sometimes yellow; idānīm kṛṣṇatām gataḥ — at the present moment He has assumed a blackish color.
Someone : mystic incarnation? Also the translation must be sectarian.
Devotee : so let me provide you motilal edition's translation of this verse
"As to this (second son), he (Krishna) assumed human forms in every yuga with three different complexions, viz., white, red and yellow for each, successively, now he has assumed the dark complexion. (Hence he will be known as krishna) "
Someone : so you mean sometimes lord rama is said to be dark brown, sometimes golden, etc. And these so called contradictions are nothing but due to bhedabhed in all vishnu tattva?
Devotee : yes. Lord rama is also known as Nīlimeghaśyā, meaning the one who is in the complexion of a blue cloud. Hence as i also quoted from the same garga samhita regarding a example of such things, and also as i said those shruti verses are Dominantly referring to lord chaitanya, and this is based on SB 10.8.13
Someone : i see. But whats the proof that, lord chaitanya had golden colour? How can we hold chaitanya caritamrta authentic?
Devotee : then who was/is the yellow avatara of kali yuga?
Someone : (silence)
Devotee: hmm?
Someone: i somewhat agree with you, i will talk to you later as i get some more doubts.
Devotee : No problem. hare Krishna _/|\_
Someone : Hare Krishna _/|\_
after the verses which describe the incarnation in treta there are verses describing the lord in dwapar (shyam varn) and kali(krishn varn)...then why u said that "But it doesn't explain dark and yellow color, dark because it is krishna, yellow because it is a mystic incarnation."......please make me out of my confusion.....Hare Krishna_/\_
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